22 May 2012

Responding to Haters

Some commenter named joe left a turd of a comment on my post “Going Gay for Race.”  It’s been a while since I critiqued a comment in full, so I’ve decided to mark this momentous occasion by making a post out of it.  (Also, blogger has a limit of 4,096 characters for comments.)
“If by tribal you mean that blacks are smart enough to realize that united we stand and divide we fall, then yes blacks are very tribal.”
Judging by the state of black-run cities (Detroit and DC, among others), it would appear that the more factually correct assertion is “united we fall.”
“Just like anyone else who wants to succeed. I am a black male who agrees with a lot of conservative principles but still tends to vote democratic (although not for Obama, not yet).”
“The reason being that conservatives just don't like us. All I have to do is listen to all the coded messages that are sent out during a republican primary to confirm that belief.”
And they should like blacks because…why, exactly? Blacks are total racists, and exploit race for every advantage they can get.  Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime.  Blacks have a very broken culture, as evidenced by the low marital rates, high bastardy rates, low educational rates, and the fact that most blacks under thirty are from broken homes.  Why would anyone want to bring this to their neighborhood?
“Just like your framing of black unity as being tribal is a subtle coded racist message.”
According to Merriam-Webster’s, my assertions and actions do not meet the definition of racism.  I do not believe that race is the primary determinant of human traits (I believe that it is correlative).  Since my assertions were made ex post they are not by definition prejudicial, and my lack of policy prescriptions indicates an absence of discrimination.  If you are using a different definition of “racism,” please provide it and explain why it’s more useful (and less inflammatory) than Merriam-Webster’s.
“Because tribal unit is considered to be of less integrity compared to other forms of unity. If blacks were indeed tribal then they would support any black republican candidate who challenges a white democratic candidate. Instead blacks vote for whomever they believe support the best interest of blacks.”

If this is true, why are heavily-black cities so politically and socially dysfunctional?  Is dysfunction really in the best interest of blacks?  Or are blacks incapable of thinking beyond stage one when it comes to determining personal ethics and political policies?
“That is exactly the same as every other voting group. Blacks do not necessarily fear what conservatives will do to them, but rather what conservatives might allow to happen to them. Its hard to support someone who would let harm (not necessarily physical) come to you because they think less of you.”

I see.  And how have blacks been doing under liberal policies?  See Walter Williams’ Race and Economics if you can’t come up with an answer.
“The manoshpere and the conservative blogoshpere tolerate quite a bit of subtle (and sometimes overt) racist comments and rarely does any well-meaning conservative stand up and chastise those comments. That alone would justify my democratic vote.”

And as we all know, racist comments=practical political policy (oh wait, it doesn’t).  And blacks aren’t exactly pro-white 24/7 (remember Jeremiah Wright?).  Would I then be justified in voting against Obama because he didn’t rebuke the good reverend?  Or would you want me to consider policy before I voted?
“As to gay marriage, it is less about being tribal and more about being sensitive to the issue of human rights. The decline in opposition to gay marriage reflects the framing of the gay marriage issue in terms of civil rights. For example, pro-choicer exploit that sensitivity when dealing with the black community by framing the abortion issue in terms of a woman's civil rights.”

This, of course, is perfectly evidenced in how blacks swung seven points more in favor of gay marriage in three days, which occurred during black people’s annual three-day spring holiday of political introspection, and had absolutely nothing to do with Obama coming out in favor of gay marriage.  In essence, all blacks who changed their minds did so out of intellectual honesty, and not because a black president said something about it.
“And it works. As a teen I initially considered myself pro-choice because I was opposed to the notion of rich old white men dictating what could be done to someone else's body. Blacks do not support homosexuality or homosexual marriage, they are just afraid of state sanctioned prejudice.”

Is that why blacks uniformly oppose affirmative action?  Or do they only oppose some types of state-sanctioned prejudice?
“Additionally, gays tend to vote democratic, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
Talk about strange bedfellows.
“Blacks do what they do in the voting booth because they have a healthy and well-founded fear of conservative white power.”
Blacks do what they do because they’re racist and tribalist.  Do you really think that white conservatives would, at this point, do more damage to blacks than blacks have already done to themselves?

Further reading: Blacks and Same-Sex Marriage.


  1. Although I wouldn't put most blacks in the racist bin...most don't subscribe to the notion that blacks genes make them somehow objectively better than whites across most/all standards...I do concur that their behavior is shockingly tribal and hypocritical to boot.

    This is because I have observed the vast majority of blacks (NABALT) to be thoroughgoingly Marxist in their political orientation. I'm talking Marxist at its basic level, the division of the population into two classes, the exploited and the expoiter, based upon skin color. They do so, not out of economic reasons IMHO, but for reasons of racial fraternity.

    Thus we have 93-odd percent of blacks voting for Mr. Obama four years ago and I dare say probably the same will vote for him again. I ask the same question in 2008 as now: who is more racialist (racist): the man who votes for the half-African Mr. Obama on the basis of his skin color, or the man who votes against him on that basis?

    The word I have used, the proper characterization, is 'racialist', but that lacks the same brio as 'racist'. Moreover, blacks and other racial minorities misuse 'racist' to great effect...thus I suppose whites would be justified in similarly misusing it against their racial adversaries.

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  3. @EW- I wa more referring to the second definition. Blacks do tend to be rather prejudicial and discriminatory. And they are very hypocritical (NABALT).

    Re: racialist, I would have to say that its lack of brio is why I don't like using it. Given that one can't discuss race with minorities without them trying to bait you, I don't see any particular reason to act in good faith.

  4. @Firepower- I'm glad you're enlightened.

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  6. I agree more with Elusive; all my life I, and my family and especially my father, have known good and solid, Christian black people. When I look at some of the best African American writers, I'm reminded of them and the human spirit we all share. The problems now come mainly, as they often do, from blind acceptance of liberal monkey-politics; we have overpopulated black cities with fatherless homes, welfare usage, tainted views of whites, and the allowance of watered-down education. What will this produce? A very negative generation, where the children will often either follow their parents' footsteps, become involved in bad groups or have to contend with them. This is the picture of blacks at their worst. At their best, they're strong, Christian, often joyful people who aspire to great things. Such people reflect their slave ancestors, those who accepted our God when they didn't have to and fought for their own lives. This is what we need now, people fighting for their own success instead of letting the government churn out something safer, but far less genuine or satisfying. Thousands of women need to learn the same thing.

  7. @Jennifer- Keep in mind that I was simply responding to a comment. I genuinely like blacks, particularly the ones I worship with. I wish we could unite on our shared humanity (this is a discussion I often with the minister of the church I attend), but it doesn't seem that most blacks want to act in good faith to see that happen. I would imagine some whites don't either, but I can with certainty that some do. As such, it is sad to see black people act with prejudice against whites, distrusting them out of hand, so that they can blame them for all the troubles they face (NABALT, but a good portion of them are). And yes, fighting for your own success is always a good policy if for no other reason than it helps to build character.

    BTW, it's good to see you round these parts again.

  8. I'm glad you see the same virtues I do in many of them, while not being blind to some of the terrible actions going on too. They are definitely the biggest portion of racists right now, and the liberal media doesn't help. This is why writers like Walter Dean Myers (who worked his way out of a possiblly bad Harlem future and now writes for young adults) is such an inspiration. The truth is, some of the best work came from women and blacks when they were required to prove themselves. We still do need to, in reality, but now we're encouraged to accept an artificial safety net.

    "BTW, it's good to see you round these parts again."

    Thanks! :)

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  11. @Jennifer- And, to be honest, all races/ethnicities have terrible people. Race seems to make for an interesting wrinkle in dealing with problems, but the root of disharmony and strife is always sin, and man's tendency to engage in it.

  12. FYI: Obama's pastor's name was Jeremiah Wright, not Jeremiah White. Just trying to be helpful.

  13. @Will S.- Corrected, thanks.

  14. Quelle Surprise, an entire post just for me. I feel special. Since my response is quite outdated at this point, I'll try to be brief.

    1 I'm not a hater; I simply disagree with your statement.

    2. If memory serves, the preceding poll to the one in question showed a 10% decrease in black support for the ban over the previous month. Put together, that sounds like a trend to me.

    3. Tribal unity is considered to be less sophisticated or inferior to other forms of unity (namely supposedly well-reasoned white unity) so declaring black unity to be tribal based on uninformed reasoning is in fact subtlety racist.

    4. Black are not tribal (heaven knows I wish we were), just look at how we treat each other (as you and other so frequently point out).

    5. Blacks vote the way they do because although in rarely works out well, we would rather try to survive the jungle (racist metaphor intended) that is black rule than try to survive the plantation that we believe would come with white rule. Plus we love sticking it to whitey.

    6. Contrary to what many conservatives say, blacks are not racist, we just fear, distrust and somewhat dislike many if not most white people (except white women).

  15. @JoeG- Please define the word racist as you are using it.

  16. @Per Merriam Webster
    Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

    I did not say your statement is blatantly racist. However, what is implied by your statement, and by many others in the conservative blogosphere, is that whenever black unite they are simply being tribal. Tribal unity being less sophisticated and thus inferior to other forms of unity such as supposedly well thought-out white unity. The facts just do not support that statement. Black are one of the least tribal ethnicities. Blacks tear each other down all the time. Just look at how we treat each other. One example the goes against your statement is that black will sooner vote for a white liberal politician than a conservative black politician. The most vivid example of blacks not being tribal is the preference for white women by black men. You however highlighted one incident (inaccurately, because there was a prior trend), ignoring all other contrary evidence, just so that you could say “look everyone, see they really are tribal.” I wonder why would someone ignore the bulk of the evidence? I sincerely wish that we were tribal like the Hispanics, the Italians, or the Jews. Maybe we would have accomplished more by now.

    I do not think that you are a racist. Frankly I don’t even know you. I am not even sure why I even commented; normally I just ignore all the racial stuff that conservatives write.